I am experimenting with hanging folders with a twist: I am putting a few staples into the hanging folders so that, when I put plain file folders of manilla folders in, they stick out at the top. It is still a bit wasteful but at I hope that it will at least make the labels easier to read...

D

A good file cabinet will have a piece that stops up the back end of it so that the folders won't slide around or fall over if you're using the non-hanging variety.

Problem is, most filing cabinets don't have this anymore. (In fact, I couldn't find *any* that do.) I wound up buying a cabinet that matches other furniture in the room. Maybe I'll have to build an adjustable back-stop myself.

Store a couple of boxes of files behind the ones in use. They're heavy, and two stacked atop each other will stop other files from sliding.

David's recommendation that we not use hanging files needs to be updated, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he needs to take account of the economics of office furniture and the realities of what we're dealing with out here. I get the impression that he deals with CEO's and professionals for whom cost is no object if they can afford to have someone like him come in and spend a couple of days with them. Such people can afford top-of-the-line Levenger filing cabinets. But most of us who are trying to implement his program are dealing with limited budgets and the sort of office furniture we find at Office Depot etc.

Many of the file cabinets sold nowadays just are not made for weight to be resting on the bottom of the drawer--the drawer bottoms slide into grooves on the bottom of the sides, and I've had a couple of bottoms give way when I stored things in the drawers because the pressed board used for the bottoms sags and the edges come out of the grooves, and my file drawer is disassembled, if not broken--the grooves can be somewhat fragile in some cases. The sides are more substantial, and the drawers are attached at the sides to the cabinet and the metal rails support them, which is why they are set up for hanging files--it's actually the drawer sides that can take weight, not the drawer bottoms. These drawers really could do away with the bottoms, because the only purpose they serve is to catch miscellaneous pieces of paper etc that fall down, and keep them from falling onto the top of the file drawer beneath them.

Unless you want to go for the more expensive, more substantial file cabinets, consider just using the hanging files the drawers were designed for. One thing I've learned is to go with the way things were designed, it makes them last longer and I'm happier with the product.

And it's very easy to use hanging files with manilla interior folders. I don't always label the hanging file folders and I like the flexibility of being able to move the manilla folders in and out. And if I label the hanging files then I can put several interior folders in that file as appropriate, and later move them to another folder --as when I move a folder from reference to action drawers.

And I like being able to label the hanging file with a more general topic and have several folders inside which subdivide that subject into sub-topics.

Also I never liked having to wrestle with adjusting the followers and having the manilla files flop over or the drawers get too crowded when I used regular file cabinets. The followers would get off the tracks from time to time and I'd have to take out all the folders in the drawer in order to fix the problem until the next time someone was careless about it. When I see photos of regular file drawers, even if the folders are labeled with David-approved labels they look messy to me, whereas the hanging files look neater.

So, if you have the hanging-folder type of file drawer, why not learn to live with it and use it and appreciate its advantages. If you get a regular file cabinet, then adapt to it and its advantages--tho once you get used to the flexibility of the hanging files you may prefer them.

It makes more sense to deal with what you have and use it appropriately than to be fighting with it, trying to get it to do something it wasn't designed to do.

Yes, I see what you mean, but don't you think there are limits? I like the Moleskine hacks where people are finding ways to attach a pen or pencil, or developing innovative ways to use them, indexing their Moleskines, or other tools. But if you have something that's not suited to the way you're trying to use it, you'll waste so much time trying to get it to do something it's not designed to do, and maybe even ruin it in the process--I speak from experience, because I did ruin a file cabinet by piling files on the drawer bottom. The bottom came out, breaking off part of the particle-board groove at the bottom. At least it's still useful for hanging files! But the bottom is gone.

For these file drawers the simplest answer would be to use a cork-bottomed bookend like they have at Office Depot as a slider in the back of the files, or if you have a metal file drawer, a magnetic bookend.

I just feel that David Allen ought to revise his guidelines in view of the real world where people can't find the old-style file cabinets except for places like Levenger where they're wildly expensive, or at used office furniture places. And nowadays so many of us have home offices and buy things that will fit in to our homes. I'm an accountant and I go to a lot of home offices, and some people do have old banged-up metal file cabinets and could care less, but there are also people who have nice furniture, not Levenger-quality, but wood desks etc and they don't want the old metal cabinets.

The office furniture we find in Office Depot etc just isn't designed for standard files. And in this case, trying to work around it and use these drawers for standard files may break them, which leads to more disorganization and annoyance.

I guess I believe it's more productive to hack the GTD system instead of hacking the hanging file cabinet. The system should be more adaptable to a variety of tools, and it bugs me that it's there like a big stone in the middle of the river, blocking so many people from getting on with their system, because we're trying to get something to do something it just isn't designed to do. You can go back several years at the Davidco forums and that's one of the big recurring themes that people ask about. And I don't think it should be like that.

I think somebody has said this, but you could use the hanging files and place the manilla files inside them. Granted, the hanging files are a little deeper than manilla, but it'll still work.

At my office we actually employ a method similar to this, in which we nest closed project folders (manilla file folders) within client folders (hanging file folders).

My file cabinet, like most I've noticed, doesn't have the stop in the back. I bought a heavier metal bookend for about $3.00 at Target to take its place. Works like a charm.

Just thought I would report back on the whole 'manilla folders inside hanging folders' thing. I started my big day zero in tray processing today (there was so much to do that I ran out of time!) and I have been trying out my 'staple the hanging folder' trick mentioned above. Its not ideal but it works pretty well.